I see many mail replies using the ugly "Top posting"
I want share some mail tricks to do ur mail pretty.
Try the "Interleaved style" in your replies!
(also called inline replying, in which the different parts of the reply follow the relevant parts of the original post), bottom-posting (in which the reply follows the quote) or top-posting (in which the reply precedes the quoted original message). For each of those options, there is also the issue of whether trimming of the original text is allowed, required, or preferred.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style
Dont use the "Top posting", yew! it is ugly!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Top-posting
Try use plain text instead HTML :P
Interleaved style looks annoying to do. Would probably be easier though if I used a non-gmail email client.
On Fri, Feb 4, 2022, 14:42 GNU Hacker gnuhacker@member.fsf.org wrote:
I see many mail replies using the ugly "Top posting"
I want share some mail tricks to do ur mail pretty.
Try the "Interleaved style" in your replies!
(also called inline replying, in which the different parts of the reply follow the relevant parts of the original post), bottom-posting (in which the reply follows the quote) or top-posting (in which the reply precedes the quoted original message). For each of those options, there is also the issue of whether trimming of the original text is allowed, required, or preferred.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style
Dont use the "Top posting", yew! it is ugly!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Top-posting
Try use plain text instead HTML :P
-- GNU Hacker. stallmansupport.org - Disinformation succeeds because so many people care deeply about injustice but do not take the time to check the facts. https://emailselfdefense.fsf.org
sounds good will do
On Feb 4 2022, at 3:41 PM, GNU Hacker gnuhacker@member.fsf.org wrote:
I see many mail replies using the ugly "Top posting" I want share some mail tricks to do ur mail pretty. Try the "Interleaved style" in your replies! (also called inline replying, in which the different parts of the reply follow the relevant parts of the original post), bottom-posting (in which the reply follows the quote) or top-posting (in which the reply precedes the quoted original message). For each of those options, there is also the issue of whether trimming of the original text is allowed, required, or preferred. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style Dont use the "Top posting", yew! it is ugly! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Top-posting Try use plain text instead HTML :P -- GNU Hacker. stallmansupport.org - Disinformation succeeds because so many people care deeply about injustice but do not take the time to check the facts. https://emailselfdefense.fsf.org
like this, right?
On 2/4/22 14:07, Tom Scott wrote:
sounds good will do On Feb 4 2022, at 3:41 PM, GNU Hacker gnuhacker@member.fsf.org wrote:
I see many mail replies using the ugly "Top posting" I want share some mail tricks to do ur mail pretty. Try the "Interleaved style" in your replies! (also called inline replying, in which the different parts of the reply follow the relevant parts of the original post), bottom-posting (in which the reply follows the quote) or top-posting (in which the reply precedes the quoted original message). For each of those options, there is also the issue of whether trimming of the original text is allowed, required, or preferred. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style Dont use the "Top posting", yew! it is ugly! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Top-posting Try use plain text instead HTML :P -- GNU Hacker. stallmansupport.org - Disinformation succeeds because so many people care deeply about injustice but do not take the time to check the facts. https://emailselfdefense.fsf.org
On 2/4/22 14:07, Tom Scott wrote:
-- GNU Hacker. stallmansupport.org - Disinformation succeeds because so many people care deeply about injustice but do not take the time to check the facts. https://emailselfdefense.fsf.org
I missed this bit earlier, but I think my main response is, you know, fuck off.
If this dude's presence is tolerated on this list, I'm out.
Reasons why: https://geekfeminism.fandom.com/wiki/Richard_Stallman
On Fri, Feb 4, 2022 at 5:30 PM Brennen Bearnes bbearnes@p1k3.com wrote:
On 2/4/22 14:07, Tom Scott wrote:
--
GNU Hacker. stallmansupport.org - Disinformation succeeds because so many people care deeply about injustice but do not take the time to check the facts. https://emailselfdefense.fsf.org
I missed this bit earlier, but I think my main response is, you know, fuck off.
If this dude's presence is tolerated on this list, I'm out.
-- Brennen Bearnesbbearnes@p1k3.com
On Feb 4, 2022, at 14:30, Brennen Bearnes bbearnes@p1k3.com wrote:
I missed this bit earlier, but I think my main response is, you know, fuck off.
If this dude's presence is tolerated on this list, I'm out.
https://fossforce.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/RMSleisure.jpg
What, do you not enjoy tender embraces? :D
It's also amazing to me that rms is still tolerated, given the massive failure of the organization he founded. Then again, most of us free software enthusiasts have a habit of tolerating the intolerable, so perhaps it shouldn't be that much of a shock.
His views aren't actually that bad, if you read what he actually wrote, for what it's worth. It's subtle, and he's trash (for other reasons!) but it's all too easy to lump him into "wrongthinkers" because the current culture war is very, very black-and-white. Stallman is too personally consistent for anyone to assign him to one of the factions without committing, for lack of a better term, a grave inaccuracy.
I encourage you to actually read his website. There are *far* more objectionable things he's said than the stuff he posted to the MIT list that caused the latest kerfuffle, for example. His website is a gem, even if you couldn't pay me to be in a room with the guy. You can call out any specific things you perceive as misbehavior, of course, without giving an implicit ultimatum to the list operators.
Remember also that he's a 'sperg, and if you are not, you should take note to read what he wrote *very*, *very* carefully. What is unsaid is as important as what is said, and many many people read his writing too quickly or uncarefully, and they read something different than what he wrote. I've myself written before about the dangers of the modern American mode of communication, which is saying-without-saying, and the trouble that direct speakers have when communicating to listeners so tuned.
https://sneak.berlin/20191201/american-communication/
Anyway, the "him or me" move is lame and authoritarian. Don't go looking for fights simply because of sports-teamism, there are sufficient stupid people in the world doing stupid things (such as rms) that you can simply wait until you have a legitimate cause for grievance to Complain about Others. (Hell, it's my favorite pastime, I should know.)
Best, -sneak
On Feb 4, 2022, at 14:30, Brennen Bearnes bbearnes@p1k3.com wrote:
On 2/4/22 14:07, Tom Scott wrote:
-- GNU Hacker. stallmansupport.org - Disinformation succeeds because so many people care deeply about injustice but do not take the time to check the facts. https://emailselfdefense.fsf.org
I missed this bit earlier, but I think my main response is, you know, fuck off.
If this dude's presence is tolerated on this list, I'm out.
https://fossforce.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/RMSleisure.jpg
What, do you not enjoy tender embraces? :D
It's also amazing to me that rms is still tolerated, given the massive failure of the organization he founded. Then again, most of us free software enthusiasts have a habit of tolerating the intolerable, so perhaps it shouldn't be that much of a shock.
His views aren't actually that bad, if you read what he actually wrote, for what it's worth. It's subtle, and he's trash (for other reasons!) but it's all too easy to lump him into "wrongthinkers" because the current culture war is very, very black-and-white. Stallman is too personally consistent for anyone to assign him to one of the factions without committing, for lack of a better term, a grave inaccuracy.
I encourage you to actually read his website. There are *far* more objectionable things he's said than the stuff he posted to the MIT list that caused the latest kerfuffle, for example. His website is a gem, even if you couldn't pay me to be in a room with the guy. You can call out any specific things you perceive as misbehavior, of course, without giving an implicit ultimatum to the list operators.
Remember also that he's a 'sperg, and if you are not, you should take note to read what he wrote *very*, *very* carefully. What is unsaid is as important as what is said, and many many people read his writing too quickly or uncarefully, and they read something different than what he wrote. I've myself written before about the dangers of the modern American mode of communication, which is saying-without-saying, and the trouble that direct speakers have when communicating to listeners so tuned.
https://sneak.berlin/20191201/american-communication/
Note this is not a defense of Stallman or anything he said: just an observation that most people so aligned against him are unfamiliar with the *facts* of what he did and did not say, even though they think they are familiar.
Anyway, the "him or me" move is lame and authoritarian. Don't go looking for fights simply because of sports-teamism, there are sufficient stupid people in the world doing stupid things (such as rms) that you can simply wait until you have a legitimate cause for grievance to Complain About Others. (Hell, it's my favorite pastime, I should know.)
Best, -sneak
I encourage you to actually read his website.
Yeah, don't actually do this.
Note this is not a defense of Stallman or anything he said: just an observation that most people so aligned against him are unfamiliar with the *facts* of what he did and did not say, even though they think they are familiar.
What a strange assumption. The most resonant stuff for me is that he's a terrible boss and worse colleague. FSF staff unionized essentially *to contain RMS.*
-wgreenhouse
What I find interesting though is that the FSF is just as bad as Stallman. Getting paid by a few rich corpos doesn't help the free software community.
wgreenhouse <http://wgreenhouse@tilde.club > hat am February 5, 2022 um 2:16 PM geschrieben:
I encourage you to actually read his website.
Yeah, don't actually do this.
Note this is not a defense of Stallman or anything he said: just an observation that most people so aligned against him are unfamiliar with the *facts* of what he did and did not say, even though they think they are familiar.
What a strange assumption. The most resonant stuff for me is that he's a terrible boss and worse colleague. FSF staff unionized essentially *to contain RMS.*
-wgreenhouse
Feb 5, 2022 8:26:34 AM Leonie Ain me@koyu.space:
What I find interesting though is that the FSF is just as bad as Stallman. Getting paid by a few rich corpos doesn't help the free software community.
No doubt. But they'll never mature while still ensnared in the tyranny of structurelessness. Even when RMS was out, he was in--because GNU is not a thing, he could not be removed as "Chief GNUisance," with unreviewable veto power over projects.
Oh well. FSFE is growing up and getting it. The mothership is still doomed for now.
On 5 Feb 2022, at 7:06, Jeffrey Paul wrote:
Anyway, the "him or me" move is lame and authoritarian. Don't go looking for fights simply because of sports-teamism, there are sufficient stupid people in the world doing stupid things (such as rms) that you can simply wait until you have a legitimate cause for grievance to Complain About Others. (Hell, it's my favorite pastime, I should know.)
This has the faint aroma of the current Neil Young v Joe Rogan kerfuffle at Spotify. One stands for his morals to say, "if he stays, then I go." Nothing wrong with that. Neil is the one losing money and he is OK with that because people know what he stands for.
That's as far into this as I'm willing to go. Hard to find definitive right or wrong because very little in life is so easily reconciled.
-- ~elb
Anyway, the "him or me" move is lame and authoritarian.
(loud fart noises, jerkoff motions)
On Sat, Feb 5, 2022 at 8:30 AM Eric Beavers elb@carryingstones.com wrote:
On 5 Feb 2022, at 7:06, Jeffrey Paul wrote:
Anyway, the "him or me" move is lame and authoritarian. Don't go looking
for fights simply because of sports-teamism, there are sufficient stupid people in the world doing stupid things (such as rms) that you can simply wait until you have a legitimate cause for grievance to Complain About Others. (Hell, it's my favorite pastime, I should know.)
This has the faint aroma of the current Neil Young v Joe Rogan kerfuffle at Spotify. One stands for his morals to say, "if he stays, then I go." Nothing wrong with that. Neil is the one losing money and he is OK with that because people know what he stands for.
That's as far into this as I'm willing to go. Hard to find definitive right or wrong because very little in life is so easily reconciled.
-- ~elb
On Sat, Feb 5, 2022 at 8:30 AM Eric Beavers elb@carryingstones.com wrote:
This has the faint aroma of the current Neil Young v Joe Rogan kerfuffle at Spotify. One stands for his morals to say, "if he stays, then I go." Nothing wrong with that. Neil is the one losing money and he is OK with that because people know what he stands for.
Funny, I was thinking an email thread descending into a flamewar felt nostalgic. Hey, it’s just like the 90s! Or the 80s, for some folks.
Hope all is well in tilde-land. I think I still need to send my key to someone to get back in.
Bob
Seconded. Without causing drama (rule 2 of tildeclub), I also ask that gnuhacker remove themselves from this space. If that’s not agreeable then I’ll disassociate myself.
And sneak, while I appreciate you trying to illuminate the situation, you _do_ sound like you’re defending Stallman. Not cool.
Yours, Chris K.
On Feb 4, 2022, at 4:30 PM, Brennen Bearnes bbearnes@p1k3.com wrote: On 2/4/22 14:07, Tom Scott wrote:
-- GNU Hacker. stallmansupport.org - Disinformation succeeds because so many people care deeply about injustice but do not take the time to check the facts. https://emailselfdefense.fsf.org
I missed this bit earlier, but I think my main response is, you know, fuck off.
If this dude's presence is tolerated on this list, I'm out.
-- Brennen Bearnes bbearnes@p1k3.com
On Sat, 5 Feb 2022 at 12:06, Jeffrey Paul sneak@sneak.berlin wrote:
On Feb 4, 2022, at 14:30, Brennen Bearnes bbearnes@p1k3.com wrote:
On 2/4/22 14:07, Tom Scott wrote:
-- GNU Hacker. stallmansupport.org - Disinformation succeeds because so many people care deeply about injustice but do not take the time to check the facts. https://emailselfdefense.fsf.org
I missed this bit earlier, but I think my main response is, you know,
fuck off.
If this dude's presence is tolerated on this list, I'm out.
Anyway, the "him or me" move is lame and authoritarian. Don't go looking for fights simply because of sports-teamism, there are sufficient stupid people in the world doing stupid things (such as rms) that you can simply wait until you have a legitimate cause for grievance to Complain About Others. (Hell, it's my favorite pastime, I should know.)
100%, sneak. We are headed down a lonely path when we start to sort ourselves into bubbles consisting only of people with whom we share the same views.
You block the first person because they disagree with you on topic A, you block the second person because they disagree with you on topic B, … pretty soon you’ve got a diagonalization argument and there’s no one left to disagree with. Mission accomplished, really?
James
On 7 Feb 2022, at 10:09, James wrote:
On Sat, 5 Feb 2022 at 12:06, Jeffrey Paul sneak@sneak.berlin wrote:
Anyway, the "him or me" move is lame and authoritarian.
100%, sneak. We are headed down a lonely path when we start to sort ourselves into bubbles consisting only of people with whom we share the same views.
Totally agree.
You block the first person because they disagree with you on topic A, you block the second person because they disagree with you on topic B, … pretty soon you’ve got a diagonalization argument and there’s no one left to disagree with. Mission accomplished, really?
Well said. It doesn’t help to cut: Be firm but keep listening. Though I’m not living in the US. Staying tolerant might be easier done here in Australia.
Leo
And frankly what’s so wrong about that?
I block people all the time - I don’t want to hear your insane theories and then be anxious about it or argue about it. There’s a lot of energy spent in useless arguments. It does very little to change perspectives or provides space for people to learn. It is an ego tussle with no end in sight.
I’m much happier and focused on things that are important for me, ever since I’ve started curating who and how I interact with. And in the process, have come to a better understanding of people around me and made more sustainable connections.
Trying to make people agree with you is a lost cause unless that other person is willing to listen. And that’s never the case with arguments.
Choose your environments and leave the ones that don’t help you grow or make you happy or help you learn or whatever your priority is. Anything that doesn’t add to your well being, subtract it.
You get to choose and decide what you want. Be smart about it. You don’t have to do and want everything, unless that’s what you want to do.
Khader
Sent via personal carrier pigeon http://sidcarter.com
On Feb 6, 2022, at 7:57 PM, James jmstylr@gmail.com wrote:
On Sat, 5 Feb 2022 at 12:06, Jeffrey Paul sneak@sneak.berlin wrote:
On Feb 4, 2022, at 14:30, Brennen Bearnes <bbearnes@p1k3.com mailto:bbearnes@p1k3.com > wrote:
On 2/4/22 14:07, Tom Scott wrote:
-- GNU Hacker. stallmansupport.org http://stallmansupport.org - Disinformation succeeds because so many people care deeply about injustice but do not take the time to check the facts. https://emailselfdefense.fsf.org https://emailselfdefense.fsf.org
I missed this bit earlier, but I think my main response is, you know, fuck off.
If this dude's presence is tolerated on this list, I'm out.
Anyway, the "him or me" move is lame and authoritarian. Don't go looking for fights simply because of sports-teamism, there are sufficient stupid people in the world doing stupid things (such as rms) that you can simply wait until you have a legitimate cause for grievance to Complain About Others. (Hell, it's my favorite pastime, I should know.)
100%, sneak. We are headed down a lonely path when we start to sort ourselves into bubbles consisting only of people with whom we share the same views.
You block the first person because they disagree with you on topic A, you block the second person because they disagree with you on topic B, … pretty soon you’ve got a diagonalization argument and there’s no one left to disagree with. Mission accomplished, really?
James
On Feb 6, 2022, at 18:14, Khader Syed me@sidcarter.com wrote:
Trying to make people agree with you is a lost cause unless that other person is willing to listen. And that’s never the case with arguments.
This is not my experience. I have personally found that lots of people end up agreeing with things they once disagreed with following becoming more educated on the topic (whether the teaching happens by the disagreeing party, or by anyone else).
The best way to get people to agree with you is to stop trying to sell them on something, and simply teach them. (This presumes that you disagree on a point of relative objective evaluation, and not something completely subjective and arbitrary like the flavor of durian or something.)
Teaching people things always has intrinsic value, in my view. The whole "it's a teachable moment" schtick is a bit cliche, but most people who go picking arguments on the internet are usually doing so on topics for which they are not a subject matter expert.
Here's maybe my favorite example of this ultimately Socratic concept: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OG3Kyk3Xc5A
Best, -sneak
tildeclub@lists.tildeverse.org
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Brennen Bearnes -
Chris Koerner -
Eric Beavers -
Evan Bergeron -
GNU Hacker -
James -
Jeffrey Paul -
Khader Syed -
leo -
Leonie Ain -
Rob Whitehead -
Robert Cantoni -
TheNumeral One -
Tom Scott -
wgreenhouse