FYI, the "hello and welcome" message landed in my spam folder. I'm on google-hosted email for my domain.
--sebboh
On Mon, Sep 9, 2019 at 2:40 PM Level Three level3@tildeteam.org wrote:
Hello and welcome
On Mon, Sep 09, 2019 at 07:00:57PM -0500, David Loyall wrote:
FYI, the "hello and welcome" message landed in my spam folder. I'm on google-hosted email for my domain.
--sebboh
Yes, gmail is like that. I recommend against anyone using it if they really want to receive mail from anyone other than those using gmail. It's a very common problem, and not much that you can do about it either - google around and you'll see nightmares about it.
A lot of providers won't even allow you to set up an account if it's a regular gmail account - we call those 'DEAs' (Disposable Email Addresses) and most phishing fraud is perpetrated by people using gmail accounts. Even if you're using GSuite, it's still google mail services, which often will ignore DKIM and SPF records. It's horrendous.
On Mon, Sep 9, 2019 at 2:40 PM Level Three level3@tildeteam.org wrote:
Hello and welcome
On Tue, Sep 10, 2019, 12:37 AM tallship@tilde.team wrote:
Yes, gmail is like that. I recommend against anyone using it [...]
Agreed. Had the domain and service for .. wow like 15 years? I will migrate off gmail. Also I will replace that muffler that fell off my car only ... about two years ago? :(
I can't host my email off my home connection and I have not managed to keep any VPS etc up to date...
Cheers, --sebboh
On Tue, Sep 10, 2019 at 12:48:17AM -0500, David Loyall wrote:
On Tue, Sep 10, 2019, 12:37 AM tallship@tilde.team wrote:
Yes, gmail is like that. I recommend against anyone using it [...]
Agreed. Had the domain and service for .. wow like 15 years?
15 years? That would make you an early adopter, perhaps, and if what you're saying is that you have your domain pointed there, you're using what they now call GSuite.
Originally, this all started as a product by two dudes who worked for Microsoft in the office division, who wanted to build a collaborative editing capability for MS Office, like what we have today with 'CODE' (Collabora Office Developer Edition for NextCloud/LibreOffice).
So these two guys created 'DocuVerse', which aside from being something for Microsoft products was actually really kewl! But alas, along came Google and acquired it, EOLed it, retooled it, and launched Google Docs from its ashes. But I digress...
So If you've hosted your domain with Google for 15 years then you should be grandfathered into GSuite for free, with what was originally either 50 or 100 seats (I forget), if it wasn't that long ago then they eventually lowered it to 10 seats (users/email addys) for free, and you and everyone you set up accounts under still has access to gplus too :) I like gplus, but it was better when there were actually people there lol.
So here's a trick you can do ;) swing your DNS elsewhere for your MX RRs (I'll cover that in a bit). Now all of your mail will go to that other place, but... you can still log into your Google account and send mail from your account and it will arrive everywhere (because who would dare to put Google SMTP servers into an RBL?). You won't receive anything in that GSuite email account (Your MX RRs point elsewhere, and that's where mail will go), but you can still use that familiar gmail interface to send mail if you so choose.
Pretty kewl, huh?
Now, I'm not gonna gig anybody for having a hard time keeping a VPS or any server up and secure. It can be more problems than someone should want to endure, but if you look around over at WHT you'll see all kinds of providers that offer shared cPanel hosting for single domains for maybe 10 bucks a year. Check their ratings, ask about them on WHT or google for reviews, and make sure they've been around for a while - that will tend to translate into them being around for a while longer ;)
That should suffice for your email. And you get webhosting too which you can use or not.
If you do want to hone your skills at attempting to maintain your own box, You can check over at LEB for specials that providers run all the time for like, $12/yr for OpenVZ VPS systems with like, 256 or 512MBytes RAM and one core. I don't like OpenVZ myself but that's because I believe in no brain no pain (You have a shared kernel that is fixed under a CentOS host). So no kernel compiles, and if you do any sort of custom firewalling you'll find that you can't install modules you need, etc., but if you just stick with standard vanilla stuff you can run a mail server just fine. All the really big providers out there that offer webhosting VPses and charge you rates for cPanel or Plesk servers starting at 50 bucks a month are actually only giving you crappy OpenVZ servers anyway - I know, because I've contracted out to some of those places - like GoDaddy and subisiaries. i.e, they'll give you the same server that you could get for 5 or ten bucks a month from a quality provider like BuyVM.net (example of a provider that doesn't oversell their OpenVZ VPses). Of course, a cPanel license now is $20/mo. But at least it's your server and that comes with dedicated support from cpanel.com.
[non-]disclaimer: I do not represent or have any current affiliation with any of the companies mentioned above.
I can't host my email off my home connection and I have not managed to keep any VPS etc up to date...
Cheers, --sebboh
Yah, it isn't as draconian as it used to be before ISPs got busted for messing with people hosting their own services at home, but It can still be less than ideal and often, it isn't worth the hassle.
I hope that helps :)
Kindest regards,
Bradley
Also annoyingly, gmail doesn't care when you report issues with delivery to them
On 10/09/2019 8:37, tallship@tilde.team wrote:
On Mon, Sep 09, 2019 at 07:00:57PM -0500, David Loyall wrote:
FYI, the "hello and welcome" message landed in my spam folder. I'm on google-hosted email for my domain.
--sebboh
Yes, gmail is like that. I recommend against anyone using it if they really want to receive mail from anyone other than those using gmail. It's a very common problem, and not much that you can do about it either - google around and you'll see nightmares about it.
A lot of providers won't even allow you to set up an account if it's a regular gmail account - we call those 'DEAs' (Disposable Email Addresses) and most phishing fraud is perpetrated by people using gmail accounts. Even if you're using GSuite, it's still google mail services, which often will ignore DKIM and SPF records. It's horrendous.
On Mon, Sep 9, 2019 at 2:40 PM Level Three level3@tildeteam.org wrote:
Hello and welcome
On Tue, Sep 10, 2019 at 09:19:39AM +0300, Kneezle wrote:
Also annoyingly, gmail doesn't care when you report issues with delivery to them
Yes indeed. But they answer the phone on the second ring and act like your best friend if you call their adwords department ;)
Funny how that works.
On 10/09/2019 8:37, tallship@tilde.team wrote:
On Mon, Sep 09, 2019 at 07:00:57PM -0500, David Loyall wrote:
FYI, the "hello and welcome" message landed in my spam folder. I'm on google-hosted email for my domain.
--sebboh
Yes, gmail is like that. I recommend against anyone using it if they really want to receive mail from anyone other than those using gmail. It's a very common problem, and not much that you can do about it either - google around and you'll see nightmares about it.
A lot of providers won't even allow you to set up an account if it's a regular gmail account - we call those 'DEAs' (Disposable Email Addresses) and most phishing fraud is perpetrated by people using gmail accounts. Even if you're using GSuite, it's still google mail services, which often will ignore DKIM and SPF records. It's horrendous.
On Mon, Sep 9, 2019 at 2:40 PM Level Three level3@tildeteam.org wrote:
Hello and welcome
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256
Yes, gmail is like that. I recommend against anyone using it if they really want to receive mail from anyone other than those using gmail. It's a very common problem, and not much that you can do about it either - google around and you'll see nightmares about it.
I've setup a SPF, DKIM and DMARC record for my mail. I ensured it looks pretty good with a mail tester (mail-tester.com if you're interested). The thing looked really good.
At the time of writing this small email, I haven't had any problem with Gmail rejecting my emails for any obscure reasons or any mail providers thanks to my ISP relaying my emails :p
- -- Mathias B. GPG: B662 E39E 8971 8E6B 8960 893C 4577 D41D 2F68 4552 (Public key: http://l4p1n.ch/info/pk)
On Tue, Sep 10, 2019 at 09:35:51PM +0300, jan6@tilde.ninja wrote:
</blockquote></div><div dir="auto" style="font-family:sans-serif">[nonsense follows:]</div><div dir="auto" style="font-family:sans-serif"><br></div><div style="font-family:sans-serif" dir="auto">I believe gmail has some magic algorithms, so if some people have you in their address books for example, you're far less likely to be messed with, etc.</div><div dir="auto" style="font-family:sans-serif">Tho pretty sure proper dkim and whole shebang together, would also make it unlikely you're ignored/viewed as spam (as long as it's all proper and old enough/not freshly made, of course)...</div><div dir="auto" style="font-family:sans-serif">of course, they might also be flagging residential IPs, or specific TLDs or such as having higher risk (like .xyz vs .com), which is unrelated story...</div><div dir="auto" style="font-family:sans-serif">(also not too unlikely they prefer stuff from domains ranked OK in their search and/or stuff like mail.example.net over mymail.example.domain.org or "you must be x months old domain and stuff to be taken seriously" etc...)</div><div dir="auto" style="font-family:sans-serif"><br></div><div dir="auto" style="font-family:sans-serif">[/nonsense]</div><div dir="auto" style="font-family:sans-serif"><br></div><div dir="auto" style="font-family:sans-serif">on one hand, they do half these things to fight spam...</div><div dir="auto" style="font-family:sans-serif">on the other hand, well, there are always alternative big mail places, which are just as good/bad otherwise, like yahoo and mail.com (mail.com has SOOOO MANY domains to choose from when creating account...) and microsoft's one (yes you can still create @hotmail.com address, pretty sure) ;p</div><div dir="auto" style="font-family:sans-serif"><br></div><div dir="auto" style="font-family:sans-serif">I like to keep a mail.com address reserved for stuff I don't want to be associated with me (including one-off account registrations and things likely to be spam, etc, as it's not blacklisted unlike nearly all temp mail providers ;)</div></div></div></div>
OMG that was horrendous trying to read your (HTML) message :(
You can select to send mail as plain text, BTW, but it's not your fault that the listserv isn't scrubbing the HTML from your message. I'll ask one of the admins to look into that because it shouldn't happen on a properly configured listserver.
To address your ideas on the matter, yes I do agree with most of what you said (it was REALLY hard to read, lol). Fresh, unproven domains sending mail, being in a recipients address book, etc., an awful lot of the problems I recall had to do with exactly the sort of things you mentioned.
I don't know if you can still actually get a hotmail account or not. Nowadays, I know they push people toward outlook.com accounts, but same company lol.
Mail.com - that's a bit of a sore spot with me. Years ago (maybe twenty) I got an email.com email account. I liked it only because it was email.com, then I think what happened was that mail.com bought it, and you could no longer get one, but you could still login to your email.com webmail. I'm pretty sure that domain went bye bye, because a few years ago I was unable to access the account or something like that, IIRC. Anyway, I never really used it, as it was more of a novelty :)
I rarely use my regular gmail account, the one I've had since it was in beta, except for one aspect, I have a lifetime email account from my Alma mater, UCSD, and I have it set up there, so occasionaly I'll send/receive mail through that, but only from an MUA and not the gmail web based client interface.
Anyway, I suspect that you're pretty close to the mark about Google's mail services - partly as a result of their Spam processing and partly because they're diks ;)
On Thu, Sep 12, 2019 at 07:36:13AM +0300, jan6@tilde.ninja wrote:
<div dir='auto'><div><span style="font-family:sans-serif">blame gmail mobile, for html ;p</span><div dir="auto" style="font-family:sans-serif">(too lazy to use k9)<br>and believe me, I TRIED to set it to plain, they just refuse to give an option (also you could pipe this through lynx for example to help read ;)<br><br><div data-smartmail="gmail_signature" dir="auto">---<br>|{| ~jan6 (phone) |}|</div></div><div><br><div class="elided-text">On 11 Sep 2019 4:05 p.m., tallship@tilde.team wrote:<br type="attribution"><blockquote style="margin:0 0 0 0.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><p dir="ltr">On Tue, Sep 10, 2019 at 09:35:51PM +0300, jan6@tilde.ninja wrote: <br> > </blockquote></div><div dir="auto" style="font-family:sans-serif">[nonsense follows:]</div> <br>
<br> OMG that was horrendous trying to read your (HTML) message :( <br>
<br> You can select to send mail as plain text, BTW, but it's not your fault that the listserv isn't scrubbing the HTML from your message. I'll ask one of the admins to look into that because it shouldn't happen on a properly configured listserver. <br> </p> </blockquote></div><br></div></div></div>
Yeah, I've never really been much of a fan of HTML mail, and I'm prolly too lazy to bother piping it through lynx ;)
On Mon, 16 Sep 2019, tallship@tilde.team wrote:
Yeah, I've never really been much of a fan of HTML mail, and I'm prolly too lazy to bother piping it through lynx ;)
HTML in email is ... I do not have an appropiate word for it, so let's just say big pile of poo.
For mutt it's fairly simple. On .muttrc:
set mailcap_path=~/.mutt/mailcap auto_view text/html
Then on the mailcap file:
text/html; lynx -assume_charset=%{charset} -display_charset=utf-8 -dump %s; nametemplate=%s.html; copiousoutput;
That will filter through lynx any html only email.
For really shitty stuff where lynx cannot help (like 90% of official goverment or bank emails and other stuff that you "need"), I have a hackish solution.
On .muttrc:
macro attach 'V' "<pipe-entry>cat >~/tmp/mail.html && firefox --private-window ~/tmp/mail.html && sleep 1 && rm ~/tmp/mail.html<enter>"
That saves the html part of the email to a file and opens a FF window. Then cleans after itself.
Hope somebody finds it useful.
Cheers,
On Thu, Sep 19, 2019 at 05:45:46PM +0200, Paco Esteban wrote:
On Mon, 16 Sep 2019, tallship@tilde.team wrote:
Yeah, I've never really been much of a fan of HTML mail, and I'm prolly too lazy to bother piping it through lynx ;)
HTML in email is ... I do not have an appropiate word for it, so let's just say big pile of poo.
For mutt it's fairly simple. On .muttrc:
set mailcap_path=~/.mutt/mailcap auto_view text/html
Then on the mailcap file:
text/html; lynx -assume_charset=%{charset} -display_charset=utf-8 -dump %s; nametemplate=%s.html; copiousoutput;
That will filter through lynx any html only email.
For really shitty stuff where lynx cannot help (like 90% of official goverment or bank emails and other stuff that you "need"), I have a hackish solution.
On .muttrc:
macro attach 'V' "<pipe-entry>cat >~/tmp/mail.html && firefox --private-window ~/tmp/mail.html && sleep 1 && rm ~/tmp/mail.html<enter>"
That saves the html part of the email to a file and opens a FF window. Then cleans after itself.
Hope somebody finds it useful.
Wow Paco!
Yes! Absolutely. Quite useful, thank you!
I am now subscribed I think. Thank you, Ben!
On Wed, Sep 11, 2019 at 10:00:06AM -0600, Level 3 wrote:
I like k9 mail and open keychain on Android. I have an open pgp key.
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
OpenPGP key: 9B0A63B4368933B527265950F71708DC8B79A037
K9 is nice, at least the last time I installed it to try it out. It was one of the very few Android MUAs that makes it possible NOT to top-post ;)
K9 is nice, at least the last time I installed it to try it out. It was one of the very few Android MUAs that makes it possible NOT to top-post ;)
Do you use gpg?
On Wed, Sep 11, 2019 at 06:53:28PM -0600, Level 3 wrote:
K9 is nice, at least the last time I installed it to try it out. It was one of the very few Android MUAs that makes it possible NOT to top-post ;)
Do you use gpg?
Yes, but not with this account.
hkps://keys.openpgp.org A0E3 9133 9067 0CCE
-- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
OpenPGP key: 9B0A63B4368933B527265950F71708DC8B79A037
On September 11, 2019 8:45:19 PM tallship@tilde.team wrote:
On Wed, Sep 11, 2019 at 10:00:06AM -0600, Level 3 wrote:
I like k9 mail and open keychain on Android. I have an open pgp key.
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
OpenPGP key: 9B0A63B4368933B527265950F71708DC8B79A037
K9 is nice, at least the last time I installed it to try it out. It was one of the very few Android MUAs that makes it possible NOT to top-post ;)
I use aquamail on Android and it is very configurable for those kinds of things! I'm quite pleased with it.
On Wed, Sep 11, 2019 at 09:12:27PM -0400, Ben Harris wrote:
On September 11, 2019 8:45:19 PM tallship@tilde.team wrote:
On Wed, Sep 11, 2019 at 10:00:06AM -0600, Level 3 wrote:
I like k9 mail and open keychain on Android. I have an open pgp key.
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
OpenPGP key: 9B0A63B4368933B527265950F71708DC8B79A037
K9 is nice, at least the last time I installed it to try it out. It was one of the very few Android MUAs that makes it possible NOT to top-post ;)
I use aquamail on Android and it is very configurable for those kinds of things! I'm quite pleased with it.
And Openkeychain is pretty awesome too. I use it for 'pass', forget what it's called at F-Droid, maybe password manager or something.
Anyway, it syncs with a private git repo on one of my servers so it's handy on any operating platform I use. It can be a little unwieldy if you use it for bunches of passwords, as you have to scroll the list, but for really important stuff it's a dream.
I'll have to checkout Aquamail, I haven't heard of it before, can it be gotten at the F-Droid repo?
Oh, and in case anyone doesn't know, if you install G-Droid, you can leave review comments for any project on F-Droid. You'll need another client to do that, like Fedilab though.
I use aquamail on Android and it is very configurable for those kinds of things! I'm quite pleased with it.
I use FairMail on Android. It's available from the F-Droid store. Now the thing is that it has a tendency to have too many connections to my server. Then my server denies a new connection and you know how it goes :p
Mathias B. GPG:B662 E39E 8971 8E6B 8960 893C 4577 D41D 2F68 4552 (Clef publique / Public key: https://l4p1n.ch/info/pk)
tildeteam@lists.tildeverse.org
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David Loyall -
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Kneezle -
Level 3 -
Level Three
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